Sex Writers, Drooling Horndogs, and the Suspectability of Male Sexuality
Why is the “sex writer” field so dominated by women?
I’ve been thinking about this question for many years. The publisher of this very blog brought it up in a conversation we were having, and it’s been on my mind off and on ever since. It came up again at a recent salon of sex writers and activists; it came up yet again, although more obliquely, in a conversation I was having with a porn writing friend of mine.
Why is the “sex writer” field so dominated by women?
There are exceptions, obviously. Arguably the most famous and influential sex writer right now is the sex advice columnist Dan Savage. And there are others, of course: David Steinberg, Dr. Marty Klein, Charlie Glickman, I could keep going. And of course, there’s plenty of dumb, generic, Maxim-magazine type sex writing from men; in some senses it’s silly to complain about sex writing as female-dominated, given how much of the dumb crap there is. But it does seem as if sex writing — serious, intellectual sex writing, at any rate — is one of those rare fields that’s largely taken up by women, and in which women are both more visible and more generally respected.
And thinking about this question is making me think about the suspectability of male sexuality.
I think that when women write about sex, we’re assumed, in some ways, to be dispassionate observers. Of course we get targeted as sluts and whores and whatnot. But we’re also seen as bringing a fresh perspective to the subject, and a cooler eye, and a more thoughtful point of view.
When men write about sex, on the other hand, they’re assumed to be drooling horndogs.
Of course men have sex on the brain, this assumption goes. They’re men. They think with their dicks. That’s what men do. Who cares what they think about sex? We all know what they think about sex. What men think about sex is that they want it.
The very fact that sex is seen as a primarily male experience makes male sex writers, paradoxically, seem less serious. Our society sees sex as being about maleness: male desires, male insecurities, male satisfaction. Our culture is sexually obsessed with women, of course; but it’s sexually obsessed with women as — and I’m turning into a ’70s lesbian feminist as I write this — the objects of desire, rather than the subjects of it. Sex is seen as a male topic. But therefore, we all too often assume that we know what men think about sex, and how they feel about it. Male sexual desire is assumed to be simple: an animal urge to put a dick in a wet hole. With, occasionally, some variations in the way of orientation and paraphilias. And I think this makes it harder for male sex writers to be taken seriously. Anything they have to say on the subject is likely to be seen as suspect.
Now, I’m not writing this to complain about the terrible unfairness of this reverse discrimination. Yes, this is to some extent unfair. It’s unfair to men to assume that the only thinking they do about sex is with their dicks, and that they therefore don’t have anything to contribute to a serious conversation about it. (Also, I feel compelled to point out, men aren’t the only ones who sometimes think with the little head instead of the big one. Believe me, I speak from experience.) But given how much regular discrimination women deal with in almost every other occupation, I’m not crying a river over the fact that this one little field of endeavor has a more female stamp on it.
That’s not the point of this.
The point of this is twofold. One is this: I, selfishly, want to read more of what men have to say about sex. I want to read more about the varieties of male sexuality, from people who are living it from the inside. I want to read more about the varieties of female sexuality, from people who are seeing it from the outside. I want to read more about how men feel about this “animal urge horndog” label they’ve gotten stuck with: to what extent they think it’s true, to what extent they think it isn’t, how the reality and the unreality of it weave together in their experience of their sexuality. Sex is too interesting and too important a topic to limit most of the serious thought about it to one gender. And in addition to hearing what men, qua men, think about sex, I want to hear what individual men think about it: what Dan and David and Marty and Charlie and so on have to say. Sex is too interesting and too important a topic to limit the voices who can talk about it seriously to the voices that are attached to vaginas. (Psychological and emotional vaginas, as well as the physical ones.)
A porn writing friend of mine was talking with me recently about a story he’d written; a kink-themed story, in which a male character was using economic leverage to take sexual advantage of a female character. My friend found this fantasy scenario hot (as do I — hoo, boy!) . . . but he was finding himself somewhat uneasy about it as well. In particular, as a good feminist, he felt uneasy about eroticizing these gender dynamics and the economic power that men have over women.
And yet, if the story had been written by a woman, telling the story from the female victim’s point of view instead of the male perpetrator’s, I doubt that he would have felt any qualms about reading and enjoying it. It bugged me a little that he felt that way about writing it. It made me wonder how many other good male porn writers had considered writing stories like this, had even started to write stories like this . . . and had stayed their hand, for fear of being seen as, or indeed for fear of being, drooling sexist male horndogs who just want to take sexual advantage of women. If so — that sucks. I, selfishly, as a fan of kinky porn in which men do fucked-up things to women, would like to read more stories like this that are written by men. I know what this fantasy feels like from my end of it. I want to learn more about what it feels like from the other end, from thoughtful feminist men who get off on it, too.
So that’s my first point. My second point is this:
I’ve lived my whole life dealing with the various and sundry ways that female sexuality gets demeaned, by being ignored or trivialized or assumed to not exist.
Thinking about this topic is making me realize the various and sundry ways that male sexuality gets demeaned . . . by the mirror image of that process. It’s making me realize that the amplification of male sexuality — the funhouse mirror that takes the image of a man and distorts it into a drooling tongue and a hard dick — has the effect of demeaning it as well.
And that sucks for all of us.
This entry was posted on Tuesday, 9 March 2010 at 12:36 pm and is filed under Culture. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
on Tuesday, 9 March 2010 at 4:42 pm Steve wrote:
Why are there massively more prostitutes to gigolos?
Why are there more female strippers than male strippers?
Why in pornography are there massively more photos of naked women than naked men?
Why, are these high profile cases of ’sex addiction’ - Tiger, Clinton etc vastly dominantly men
Why is there no equivalent in the hero world to the bath houses in the gay world?
Blumstein & Schwartz’s 10 years of research culminated in the 1983 book “American Couples: Money-Work-Sex” found that men were less satisfied with sex in marriage than women and that men tried to initiate sex more than women and that wives frequently restricted sexual activities. Byers and Heinlein did an interesting study looking at not only who initiates sex in the marriage but also who considered initiating sex more often. Unsurprisingly they found that men initiated and considered initiating sex more frequently and that women refused sex more often. Here’s the big one tho’ - no woman who considered initiating sex failed to do so - they only had to think about it and it was done.
Kinsey (1948, 1953), found in comparing spouses’ accounts of sexual activity that women reported having sex more frequently (but desired it less) and men reported having sex less (and desiring it more).
No matter how insightful the modern feminist polemic is it is wistful thinking to imagine that the internal female sexual experience is similar to the mans
====
I would not wish being a high sex guy on my worst enemy - there is no where to go. You know that every thought about women, every desire makes you a pariah. This saliva dripping in my mouth feeling this antsy palms tingling, urgent visceral hip pushing thrusting feeling is … it is not wanted by society or by my partner. It is only ever a frustration. I know that it will never be reciprocated back at me. By anyone. How can I write about my desire when the object of that desire is women.. who will not freely give and certainly not in the variety of ways and novelty and amount I ‘need’. About a simple trip to the shopping center - the way I survey the curve of the bosom down every blouse that I pass, about the way I notice the up skirt reflection from the polished metal on the escalator or the view through the crack in the door to the change-rooms. Men who have desire are locked up. They are hated. Can I write about that? How could I possibly write about a harder fantasy?
Only a woman or a gay man can write about what they want from sex or how they feel sex should be. I hate being a sexual guy with a normal libido wife. Hate Hate Hate it.
on Tuesday, 9 March 2010 at 8:02 pm Steve wrote:
That was meant to be ‘hetro’ world, not hero world.. sorry
on Tuesday, 9 March 2010 at 9:15 pm Greta Christina wrote:
Steve, thank you for being so honest about this. This is exactly what I mean when I talk about wanting to hear more from men about their experience of sexuality.
I do feel like it’s important to say this: While I agree that on average, men tend to be more libidinous than women (and all the evidence you cite at the beginning of your comment supports this), this is on average: it’s overlapping bell curves, not a universal black-and-white difference. If you read the sex advice columns, you’ll read letters from women who feel intensely libidinous, in much the same way you do… and who have male partners who not only can’t keep up with them, but who deride and insult them for being such nympho sluts and whores. This is to some extent a male/ female issue… but it isn’t universally.
on Tuesday, 9 March 2010 at 10:00 pm Steve wrote:
Sure - there are countless cases where the woman has the higher libido. Lesbian and gay couples and all the trans-gender and otherwise diverse relationships will all have interesting variations on the theme. But lets not let the focus on those interesting statistical outliers hide the vast number of unhappy, confused frustrated blokes out there that are very aware of how tight a lid they have to keep on their desire. For blokes there is no such thing as “sex positive”. The internal experience of male sexuality is one of contentious and continuous dousing and self denial.
BTW: you may be interested in JOURNAL OF SEX RESEARCH, 46(1), 33–45, 2009: The Nature of Women’s Rape Fantasies: An Analysis
of Prevalence, Frequency, and Contents
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 2:37 am Lynet wrote:
Steve, I’m intrigued that you perceive high male sexual desire as something which is not merely frustrating and difficult to satisfy but also so “hated” that “every desire makes you a pariah”. It’s true that male sexuality is often seen as threatening, and in many ways this is a separate issue to the frustration of an unsatisfied libido. While the sex-positive movement has only partial remedies to the latter problem, I think perhaps it can address the former. If it’s understood that those who do not wish to have some sort of sexual interaction will have their right to refuse respected, then desire alone really shouldn’t be hated or perceived as wrong.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 2:53 am Valhar2000 wrote:
Steve, have you considered the possibility that you are extraordinarily libidinous yourself?
I mean, everything you have described, about checking out bosoms and short skirts resonates, since I do a lot of that myself, but your descriptions of the ghastly pain that produces do not, and I don’t even have a “normal libido wife”: in fact, I have no wife or girlfriend at all, just my own right hand to rely on, and it still gets as bad as what you describe.
Then again, you might be on the average and I might be the outlier…
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 2:54 am Valhar2000 wrote:
I meant to say “it still never gets as bad as what you describe”
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 7:00 am YB wrote:
There was a Polyamory Weekly episode a while back where they played some recordings of panels–I forget which panels it was they were playing, but one of them ended with CunningMinx asking if there were any women in the room willing to flash her their boobs (there were, and she was gleeful), and Tacit commenting something about how that was a question he would never be allowed to ask in a similar context. I thought that was an interesting illustration of the different perceptions of male and female sexuality. Having grown up in a world where those different perceptions are the norm, I can completely intuitively understand why it comes off so differently from a girl (especially Minx) compared to a guy, but it’s still strange when you really think about it.
Also related, I find, is the differences in the interpretations of girls or guys talking about their sexuality on dating websites. The general advice for men on dating websites is not to mention sex, porn, etc. Period. Because you’ll come off as a creep. Because it seems that the vast majority of men on dating websites who talk about sex in their profiles are creeps (though whether the fraction who are creeps is higher among those who mention sex or it’s just very high in general, I’m not sure).
The general advice for women is also not to mention sex, because if you do you’re prone to get mobbed by “Oh, you’re sex-positive–that means your’e easy; let’s fuck”-type messages.
I was tempted to say that common dating website behavior is indicative of why the norms/stereotypes are the way they are, but in retrospect, it’s a very chicken-or-egg question–hard to say which came first.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 7:02 am Kurt Shimek wrote:
Hi Greta- I really enjoyed this article. As a rather sensitive, bisexual male, I’ve felt inclined to keep my sexual feelings to myself. I know what it’s like to be discriminated against because of my biological gender. I think it starts in grade school; the loud, aggressive boys grabbed all the attention, and if something went wrong, the whole class received punishment. There was tremendous peer pressure to at least condone bad behavior. So all guys are perceived as the same. Teasing and bullying work to keep thoughtful, sensitive boys quiet for life, or worse, have them emulating the others. Then we grow up, and nothing’s changed, as we have been programmed to think with our dicks, or suffer the consequences. So I think our culture has much to do with this subject. Back in the mid-80s, at a time when I was really starting to understand my sexuality, I happened to work in a very gay-friendly Minneapolis neighborhood. A majority of my coworkers were lesbians, and I fit right in with them. I was able to come out to them, and felt as though I had some kind of community that I could fit into. I identified with their struggles, and learned so much! Unfortunately, there was much anti-male sentiment, especially when going out with friends who were not familiar with me. I couldn’t get out from under the shadow of other men. Being bisexual didn’t help, I believe. Thanks a bunch, guys!!! Nice to know I’m still in that gradeschool classroom!
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 7:27 am Nathaniel wrote:
I feel that this perception of men as out of control horndogs controlled by the dick-missiles in their pants is part of a larger societal phenomenon. Namely, that men, to a large extent, are seen a predators or at least potential predators. I will never forget the story I heard from a friend of mine. His younger sister had asked him to read to her at bedtime because their mother wouldn’t do it any more. This became a routine for a year or two, but then the parents forbade it. Why? Well, their reason was revealed when the father did the “serious talk” routine with my friend and asked him: Did you touch her? And he wasn’t talking about in the brotherly fashion. I have a hard time imagining that an older sister would ever be asked such a question. It why women so totally monopolize any jobs that deal with small children. Its partly about economics, but men who enjoy children are seen as suspect. Why? Because men are dangerous. They are predators. They are out of control horndogs controlled by dick-missiles in their pants.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 8:07 am Infophile wrote:
I don’t have as much time right now to get into this as I’d like, but hopefully I’ll be able to come back later and finish my thoughts. My situation is that I’m a male fanfiction writer for a lesbian fandom, and all those stereotypes are quite alive in my mind. I make an effort not to mention my gender in my profile so people won’t prejudge me, as I don’t want their reading to be tainted by confirmation bias of what they expect from a man writing lesbian fiction - particularly, the stereotype that he only does it for his own arousal. My friends typically say that I write like a woman, and many people have been fooled into that assumption. The difference seems to be in how emotional the writing gets, versus how much it focuses on the physical aspects of what’s going on. I suspect that at some level, it’s more acceptable for a man to write sex scenes if they focus on physical imagery than “all the girly emotional stuff.” Or perhaps it’s more natural for men to want to do that, or maybe it’s more acceptable for them because it’s more natural, in another chicken-egg dilemma.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 11:14 am mim wrote:
Great post, Greta. Couple of thoughts: I’m a female, straight sub, and I love erotic stories as a means to get off. I note two sort of odd things on reading this post and the comments.
The first is about the kinky story Greta mentioned. Personally, as a submissive, I am much more interested in reading a story from the Dom’s perspective. I already know what goes on in my own head, the point of fiction is that I want to know about the kick the man is getting out of using/abusing me. The hottest D/s-related story I ever read was called (translated) “To Tame a Woman” and was written in first person from the Dom’s perspective. What, if anything, does this say about my submissiveness?
Secondly regarding Infophile’s comment: I find emotional stuff in erotic stories completely pointless. Yeah, it might make the actual STORY better, but I’m in it for the sex, not the mushy stuff. Same in porn - I’m all for dropping contrived plots and bad dialogue entirely and just having scenes of endless fucking. In fact, that’s probably why I prefer the short amateur vids you can find online of people fucking in front of webcams. What, if anything, does this say about my porn/erotica consumer habits as a woman?
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 11:23 am Ursula wrote:
I feel like it’s a big feedback loop.
Portraying men as horndongs (since all that testosterone contributes to to a higher average sex drive amoung men than women) creates a standard of masculine behaviour as a horndog, which pulls horndogs out of the woodwork. Since there are so many horndogs about, they seem like a fairly reasonable standard on which to base the portrayal of men. Since this is the way men behave and feel, how come this guy doesn’t behave and feel this way - well he has to because he’s a man, and he has uncomplicated feelings about sex.
The thing about averages that most people forget is that there are equal number of people on each side of that average. An average behaviour isn’t always one that a lot of people share.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 11:41 am Quinapalus wrote:
I wonder, some, about how much this effect varies with context, because it’s a social effect, and those almost always vary according to who you’re associating with. I’m reading about this effect from the same context that Greta’s writing about it from: San Francisco. I don’t know how far it extends — Liberal Coastal America? America at large? the English-speaking world? the whole world? Probably not that far. Anyway, at least in the SF-centric context, I don’t think it’s the voice of male desire that’s been muted, so much as that of hetero male desire, because here at least, discussion of gay male desire is still thriving. (Would Dan Savage be a successful sex columnist today if he were straight?) That could just be because SF is the world capital of gay male culture. (: Or it could be because the sexual revolution, second-wave feminism, and gay liberation all landed very close together, and discussion of sex was becoming more sophisticated just as women and gay men’s political fortunes were rising, so they were well-positioned to become influential voices (huh huh, “positioned”). Or it could be that, as much as gay sexuality still exemplifies the “hard dick in a wet hole” model, for every hard dick, some other man is the wet hole, and that’s a mode of masculinity that people were not sick of hearing about. (I am actually not well-grounded in the history of feminism, gay liberation, or their early interactions with one another, so if it turns out that the sexual revolution actually touched off either of those movements, or vice versa, and some other commenter has the background to set me straight — huh huh, “straight” — I will very much appreciate being schooled.)
Even bigoted straight guys, in their way, recognize that bottom desire falls well outside the familiar “dick-missile” dynamic (thanks, Nathaniel, for such a concise and vivid term for it!) — they approach it in demeaning terms that make it clear that they have no intention of surrendering privilege, of course, but they sort of take it as read that some guys want to stick their dicks in other guys rather than in women. But for a man to want to take a cock up his ass: they find this fascinating, to the degree that they assume it’s more important to gay men than it actually is, which could only happen if they were conscious of the real difference that it represents from the male desire they themselves are familiar with.
So gay desire is acceptable to the intellectual circles that Greta led off the discussion with. But the “predation” meme that Nathaniel mentions comes roaring back if you look at, say, the reactionary response to the gay marriage movement. Who do you think the churchies are feeling more defensive of, their daughters or their sons?
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 12:26 pm Greta Christina wrote:
OMG, I love this conversation. (And Quinapalus’s point about the difference between how gay and straight men’s desires are perceived is making me smack myself on the forehead and wish I’d said it myself. Can we pretend that I did?)
I want to respond to Steve again real quick before we move on: Steve, again I feel for you. But again, I think you may be universalizing your experience in a way that’s not accurate. It may well be true that for many men, there is no such thing as “sex positive,” and that their internal experience of male sexuality is one of “contentious and continuous dousing and self denial.” It’s true for you, and I’m sure it’s true for other men as well — and that sucks, and it’s important to talk about. But I don’t think it’s at all universally true. (Guys — if I’m wrong about this, correct me.) Sex positivism is a real experience for many men. And I know I’m not the only woman who sometimes feels like she just has to sit on the volcano if she’s going to function in society. Again, I’m not trying to deny your experience — I just don’t think it’s universal. And it doesn’t have to be in order to be either valid or important.
And I think the points about predators and feedback loops are very pertinent indeed. More, please! I’m still not satisfied. :-)
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 12:30 pm Infophile wrote:
Re: Mim. I can certainly understand that perspective. The only point I’d take away from that is that different people look for different things in their smut. The reason I put in the emotional aspects to my stories is so that it’s not just about two random people fucking, but about two specific, fleshed-out characters fucking. For some people - not all - that’s much more of a turn-on.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 12:32 pm Goddess Aphrodite wrote:
Interesting piece. I write/read erotica, and I have to say I LOVE and savor the pieces written by men. If they can truly express the things in their minds…the animal, mainly. This is what I want to understand and know. I don’t think it is hated…it is real. Why hate it? My true desire is for a man who wants to explore all if his darkest desires with me. This person will have integrity and compassion, but he is self-aware enough to know that his sexual self has no “end”. A man can be this and find a woman who is willing to join him in this journey…ONLY if he has absolute respect for her. It would of course be mutual respect. I want/need to know that if I go there with you…I will not be judged by you. I want to know that I am revered for it. You would be the lead, the safe haven into these dark landscapes.
So, don’t think women don’t have all kinds of desires waiting to be fulfilled. It’s a matter of finding the right partner. And men are not “hated” for their true feelings (at least not by me). It’s the secret repressions that undesireable.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 12:35 pm miller wrote:
As a relatively undersexed male, I feel like I could use this space to complain how backwards the horndog stereotype is for me. But actually, the stereotype doesn’t hurt me much personally. I think I give off a rather sexless vibe, so people quickly realize that I don’t fit the stereotype, and then they move on. For me, the more harmful stereotype is the idea that all men are secretly hypersexual underneath, even if they never act like it.
In general, I think stereotypes harm people most when they partially fit or appear to fit the stereotype. Then people think, “oh, he’s one of those,” and then they assume they know everything about you.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 1:40 pm Brian wrote:
Greta, I found this piece to be a wonderful read. You very eloquently summed up a lot of the thoughts I’ve had concerning male sexuality for a long time, and it was wonderful to see anyone at all, regardless of gender, express them. It was particularly amazing where you concluded with the fact that this misperception sucks for everyone, because it most certainly does.
I know from my own experience, reading, and observation of people around me that male sexuality is far, far more complex and beautiful than the slobbering horndog perception that you wrote about. It’s extremely disheartening to me that so many men have been conditioned to be so incredibly thoughtless about their own sexuality, and consequently are so detached from it, and that even a lot of men who are thoughtful about their identity and sexuality are influenced or brought down from their own perceptions of what their sexuality is and what it means. I long for a day where everyone, men and women, will be free to explore this aspect of themselves freely and openly, without any destructive and wrong ideas to bring them down. I think in such a scenario everyone will be a lot happier and *a lot* more satisfied.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 1:55 pm J. wrote:
Oh wow, I’m so happy for that issue to be brought up here.
A sex-positive view on male sexuality is IMHO the next big step regarding male emancipation. I’m not talking about any of that “now we get back what was our’s”-crap, but about men being able to more freely choose and fill their roles. And I do believe the jerks on dating sites would really, really benefit from more open roles. I always see sex-laden hate talk as “uninformed of the self”. If these guys could simply tell people what they want and feel good about it, I’m sure life would get better for everyone involved :).
When I was a kid, I was always pretty sure that sex was something that men wanted and women permitted to happen. *shudder*. I was glad when I found out this isn’t completely true, that women DO like sex. In recent times, I’ve become shocked by how accurate my kid-perception reflected a societal view of different sexualities.
Male sexuality is a thing that many, many people believe they understand and yet utterly fail to really ‘grok’. With this statement I include many, many men, too. I’d even say I’m still shyly intrigued by the depths, but I haven’t yet gone there.
Female sexuality has been explored way better in the last 30 years, or at least that’s how it seemed to me.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 3:20 pm Eli wrote:
But I don’t think it’s at all universally true. (Guys — if I’m wrong about this, correct me.) Sex positivism is a real experience for many men.
I’d speculate it’s pretty universal, but that the level of impact varies individually. I doubt there are any men who remained completely unaffected by society’s many dysfunctional attitudes towards (male) sexuality, any more than is the case for women. To use an analogy; that many women are fairly comfortable with their body doesn’t alter the observation that body image issues are pretty universal and pervasive, and almost nobody is entirely free of them.
Infophile: I draw a mature webcomic and my characters have deep philosophical conversations during sex. There’s no accounting for
kinktaste… =Pon Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 3:31 pm Quinapalus wrote:
Eli: That purse matches your coat pretty well.
(What? Of course I followed the link! And under the circumstances, of course I went straight to a comic entitled “Construction of Masculinity”!)
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 3:40 pm Alexis wrote:
Thanks for this post Greta! This is something i’ve been thinking about for a while myself.
You wrote:
“I think that when women write about sex, we’re assumed, in some ways, to be dispassionate observers. Of course we get targeted as sluts and whores and whatnot. But we’re also seen as bringing a fresh perspective to the subject, and a cooler eye, and a more thoughtful point of view.
“When men write about sex, on the other hand, they’re assumed to be drooling horndogs.”
i agree, but also wonder if a slight variation on this is not also true: to wit, that while cis men writing about sexuality is often felt to be at best uninteresting, and at worst sleazy / gross, cis women writing about sexuality is often felt to be titillating / sexy. Particularly by (ostensibly) straight cis guys whose policing of their heterosexuality involves not wanting to discuss sexuality with other men unless women are the focus of the discussion: talking to a woman about sex doesn’t mean they have teh gay, but talking to a man might.
i also think we need to consider sex / gender diversity when considering notions of ‘female’ and ‘male’ perspectives on sexuality. Myself, i’m bigendered / genderqueer: i was assigned male at birth, but now identify as both a trans woman and a guy. When i write about sexuality, which gender am i representing, if any?
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 4:27 pm Anon Anon wrote:
Why are there so few male sex writers? I think you hit the nail on the head in your own essay:
“Our society sees sex as being about maleness: male desires, male insecurities, male satisfaction.”
And most men would rather read sex writing by women. Sexperts are, themselves, often sex symbols (Midori) or even directors and actors in porn (Annie Sprinkle, Tristan Taormino, Audacia Ray).
Also, I agree with your blogs’ other comments about society’s (not my) sex-negativity. I decided to respond here and not on Facebook, lest some friend of mine think I’m an evil drooling horndog.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 4:46 pm Greta Christina wrote:
That’s a good way of putting it, Eli. It’s not like sex-positivity is an either/or thing, where we’re either entirely positive about sex or entirely broken about it. It’s a continuum. And it’s not like being sex-positive means never having negative feelings or experiences about sex, ever. Like I wrote in a different piece: Sanity doesn’t mean not having neuroses. Sanity means not letting neuroses get in the way.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 5:12 pm Steve wrote:
Thanks guys - I feel like I’m kind of cheating - I’m having a similar conversation on my blog and copied with some edit some of my comments from there to here… , specifically on my blog I posed the question - what do you do about the Coolidge Effect? The consensus seems to be denial.
I’m not egotistical enough to believe that I’m a particularly high sex guy, probably in the middle of the top half but nothing at all out of the ordinary.
One thing I have noticed is that when posed the question - what should you do if you are not getting the sex that you want in your relationship is that women very commonly say: leave.
Here I am again cross posting the same material - I came across an article in an Aussie newspaper about a guy that filmed his partner. She was holding out on him. What would have been better - him to leave the relationship or for him to deal with his frustration in some way without cheating - in this case by filming her in the shower. Would it be better for him to be using pornography - watching vids of other women in the shower or of the woman he loved and was living with. She was controlling, limiting, using sex as a punishment and he got around it. What is the sex-positive take on this??? You can’t just say oh, well, he should have left. Guys generally have the higher libido and if every guy left the relationship he was in because it wasn’t balanced …. Guys have to self regulate, can’t be compulsive, have to be careful about how they express desire and satisfaction, must be careful not to let refusal fester and ruin a relationship - that’s jut the normal everyday experience of being a guy.
Dan Savage can get on stage and tell women that of course he’s going to put his hands behind your head and fuck your throat when you give a blow job, that that is what cocks are for - for thrusting, for fucking, let him fuck your throat, enjoy it. A straight guy can’t say that. We have become completely dis-empowered when it comes to sex.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 7:18 pm Chris Hallquist wrote:
I hesitated before deciding to comment on this post, but after seeing how nicely you responded to Steve, I’m giving it a go: First, I’ve never actually read an article out of Maxim, and briefly glancing at the articles available online before typing this comment gave me no desire to do so. But have you ever heard of Tucker Max? If not (actually, even if you have) I strongly recommend reading this HuffPo piece by him. He’s a writer who’s material at first glance looks really crude, but he’s actually pretty smart and I relate to the things he talks about. You frame the issue as a matter of smart male sex writers getting saddled with stereotypes about men (i.e. “What men think about sex is that they want it.”) But part of the problem, I think, is the other assumption that if a guy to some degree fits certain stereotypes, he therefore must not be smart or have anything worth saying.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 7:23 pm Christophe wrote:
Well, of course a straight guy can say that. He just can’t expect the answer to always be “yes.”
I believe you are confusing empowerment and permission. Not meaning to trivialize the concern, but I am perfectly empowered to find Indian food anytime I want, I just can’t barge into a Mexican restaurant and demand it. I am empowered to find a poly relationship, but not with a woman for whom lack of monogamy is a deal-breaker. I’m empowered to find a woman who enjoys having her throat fucked, but I am not empowered to demand it of any particular woman.
The answer to every relationship problem is not “leave,” of course, but it is sometimes the best solution to a complex problem. If this were absolutely universal, if there was simply no hope of any man ever finding a sexually-compatible woman, that would be one thing, but that simply isn’t the world we are living in.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 8:44 pm secretiveslave wrote:
I had a blog for awhile and a post I wrote was even featured on erosblog. The reason I quit was that my partner was uncomfortable with me being so open about our relationship even though I took steps to be anonymous about it. Without her consent it wouldn’t be right for me to continue so I stopped. I really enjoyed it and seemed to be getting a small amount of popularity, enough that when I abandoned my website a squatter moved in super fast. I agree that there aren’t nearly as many men writing as there are women and I wish I could find more men with the same sexual bent as myself to read.
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 10:08 pm winter_lights wrote:
particularly, the stereotype that he only does it for his own arousal.
This strikes me as very strange.
From your comment, it sounds like you’re writing erotic fiction. I’m extremely uncomfortable with the idea of someone doing that if it’s something that doesn’t arouse them. I haven’t written much of it myself (and been satisfied with less), but all of it at least has roots in something I fantasized about. Or, in one case, acted out, to make sure it was actually possible.
Admittedly, the idea of someone actually being aroused by some of the things I’ve read about doesn’t make me feel better either, but I can at least understand the motivation behind the writing.
I support without reservation stories going into the emotional stuff. I just can’t get all that interested in reading about people having sex unless I know a bit about them. (My problem with porn in this regard isn’t them trying to do it, it’s that they usually don’t take the time and effort to do it well.)
on Wednesday, 10 March 2010 at 10:50 pm Becky wrote:
You might want to try reading the British Erotic Review, where the owner/editor is refusing to let women write…..perhaps some of the male writers there will have the “same sexual bent” as you.
http://singlewomantalk.com/news/women-cant-write-about-sex
on Thursday, 11 March 2010 at 2:43 am Valhar2000 wrote:
J wrote:
“When I was a kid, I was always pretty sure that sex was something that men wanted and women permitted to happen. *shudder*.”
Same here, buddy! I was also pleasantly surprised to find out how untrue that is.
on Thursday, 11 March 2010 at 8:11 am YB wrote:
I think the point about the “dick-missile” stereotype bringing guys with that mindset out of the woodwork is right on. The fact that there is that stereotype means that guys with that mindset find it much easier to be that way.
I think the most significant problem I experience with this type of pigeonholing is that it prevents me from being able to be as open and honest as I’d like to be in certain situations, because it’s so easy for a guy talking about sexuality to be misconstrued as being creepy or coming on to someone, etc, etc. It’s a minefield. I love being able to talk about my kinks and my sexuality and there are certain groups around which having that type of conversation requires a lot of work–I have to make sure that I frame what I’m saying in ways that avoid giving the wrong impression. Unless I’m around people who understand me well enough that I don’t have to worry about framing, that means I have to make a decision every time I feel like talking about sex or sexuality: is having this conversation really worth the effort of navigating the minefield?
It also, relatedly, makes it more difficult to be honest about when I’m attracted to people. I put a lot of effort into being open with people I’m close to if I’m attracted to them–even when I’m not interested in them as a potential sex or relationship partner. It’s just one facet of the effort to be honest with people in general about how I feel about them in all respects. The problem is that with some people, it’s impossible to say “I’m attracted to you and I want you to know because we’re close and it’s important to me that I’m honest with you about that”, without running a risk of coming off as, “I’m attracted to you–we should totally fuck now”.
on Thursday, 11 March 2010 at 8:21 am Nathaniel wrote:
Eli wrote: I’d speculate it’s pretty universal, but that the level of impact varies individually. I doubt there are any men who remained completely unaffected by society’s many dysfunctional attitudes towards (male) sexuality, any more than is the case for women.
You speak the truth. Speaking for myself, I am a dom male with a pretty healthy sex drive. My libido kicked into overdrive when I was only 11, right before 6th grade. The swiftness and strength of the change confused me, and caused intense anxiety. It became even worse when started to become area of my dom aspect. I wanted to be in control and possessive of women. Yet women were people just like everyone else. How could I have these desires and be a good person? Its taken me nearly a decade too sort out these desires(a lot of it with help with my wonderfully sub girlfriend.) I think I am not alone in my initial attitudes. I can find the personal sexual writing for countless numbers of sub and dom women on the internet, a few sub men, and no dom men. I suspect at least some of the reason for this goes back to my predation meme. Dom women are not seen as dangerous (well, not seen as dangerous to people aren’t sexual reactionaries.) Everyone knows that even when the whips are out, its all in fun. With males dom though, people start to get a lot more uncomfortable. After all, everyone knows on some level that men can be dangerous.
on Thursday, 11 March 2010 at 10:49 am Runbotrun wrote:
Some time ago, I had a conversation with the german publisher Claudia Gehrke who publishes (among many other things) sex-positive porn in the form of free-for-all anthologies: Straight and gay, pictures and stories, from male and female writers, for male and female readers…
She told me that in recent years the influx of what (I would call, bereft of a better name) “true hardcore” porn, of stories and art which goes beyond vanilla sex, was not only mainly contributed by women, but actually submitted by women in such quantities, that she did have a problem to maintain gender equality (which she aimed for). In fact, most of the male contributions were far too timid and therefore often unusable for the purpose of a sex-positive porn anthology.
So that’s an answer to your question, I guess.
on Thursday, 11 March 2010 at 11:05 am Greta Christina wrote:
In case you’re interested: Charlie Glickman (who I mention in this piece) has just written a very interesting piece of his own on this topic. I highly recommend it.
Why Aren’t There More Men in Sex Ed?
And Steve, I have to echo what Christophe said, and add to it. There is a difference between observing that, on average, men tend to have higher libidos that women… and concluding that therefore men can never find sexually satisfying relationships. And there is a HUGE difference between a relationship where the two people have differing libido levels… and a relationship where one person doesn’t see this as a problem, and doesn’t respect their partner’s desire, and isn’t willing to work on it and find a reasonable compromise. Differing libido levels are very common in relationships… and while in hetero relationships it is probably more common for the man to be the one with the higher libido, relationships where the woman has the higher libido are pretty common — common enough to not just be freakish outliers. And many couples are able to work it out and find compromises that work fairly well: exploring different kinds of sexual intimacy, scheduling sex, non-monogamy, etc. “Differing libido levels” is a very different relationship problem from “not getting your sexuality honored and respected.”
I have great compassion for you. But if you’re determined to see this as a universal problem of gender destiny that therefore can never be solved, as opposed to a particular (albeit common) problem that you need to make choices about, there’s not going to be much anyone can say that will help.
on Thursday, 11 March 2010 at 11:08 am jeff wrote:
This is a great discussion, and more discussions like it need to happen. Thanks for the thought-inspiring post. I agree with many of the comments, and the original post, that male sexuality is much more complex than is often acknowledged.
I also think that any discussion of myriad male sexualities ought to include a shout out to Maymay, who explores male sexuality in interesting ways.
http://maybemaimed.com/
on Thursday, 11 March 2010 at 1:34 pm Russo wrote:
I am so appreciative of this conversation. Nathaniel wrote, “With males dom though, people start to get a lot more uncomfortable. After all, everyone knows on some level that men can be dangerous.”
I would love to have more conversation on that. I have some close male friends who have varying degrees of Dom impulses, desires and outlets. I have watched them all suffer a great deal with the belief that these impulses are indeed “dangerous” and that they will “hurt” a woman if they really fuck her the way they are wanting to. So what I see happen, is these men then repress these energies, or find emotionally unfullfilling casual encounters (for these men they seem to want a real connection with a partner) that seem to only strengthen their repression, shame and frustration. And even more sadly, I have seen there be a confusion arise when they are met with a strong, loving woman who wants ALL their sex and encourages it…it seems these beliefs that they are “dangerous”, “bad” “disgusting,” “Violent” overwhelm, even to the point of arousal being stopped, erectile dysfunctions showing up, such a fear of trusting someone to accept that part of them, which makes the whole cycle even more excruciating. They have voiced that they can not trust these women to accept them, they really fear they will be rejected and maybe cause harm, physically and emotionally if they are who they are.
Being a straight fem Sub, I find this so hard to watch and think conversations such as these do WORLDS of good in alleviating the shame and stereotyping of male sexual desire. OF COURSE for some women these types of sexual expression may be harmful or certainly undesirable, thus these are not the relationships for that kind of energy. But I think letting men know that their impulses are not “wrong” or so simple as putting a hard cock in a wet hole…is the first step. Then they may be encouraged to talk, and find partnerships where that sexuality is not only understood, but welcomed and of benefit to the other person in it.
I find it hard to talk with many of my female friends about the sexuality I prefer and crave (which is to be on the receiving end of some “naughty hard fucking” “being tied up told what to do, tortured.) I get the sad and worried looks, the pensive silence as they try to think how to coach me out of an “abusive” relationship. Fuck! I have never been as strong, self confident and happy as I am in that dynamic. It fortifies my entire existence in the bedroom and out of it. it’s hard being a woman who wants that energy from a man (within a respectful relationship of course) We too suffer from the repression and stereotypes, as we long to find men who have had the GIFT of learning how to accept, honor and enjoy ALL of their sexuality.
THANK YOU everyone for sharing!
on Thursday, 11 March 2010 at 5:17 pm Eli wrote:
Greta wrote: It’s not like sex-positivity is an either/or thing, where we’re either entirely positive about sex or entirely broken about it. It’s a continuum.
I’m not sure the experiences Steve wrote about have to do with being sex-positive/negative. I think for most men there is very little correlation between being positive about sex and getting any. So I’d say it’s more a continuum of skill at coping with frustration and with the ways society frames this…
on Thursday, 11 March 2010 at 10:55 pm Nathaniel wrote:
Russo brings up a good point. Female subs have experienced some mirror attitudes about their kink, with people thinking they are claiming to like real abuse or have daddy issues. The difference is that the feminist and to some extent, the gay rights movement have carved out a space for women to be their true sexual selves, including the subs. Straight males have no such similar movement.
on Friday, 12 March 2010 at 2:03 am Cameron Cowan wrote:
I think this is indicative of a larger societal problem. I meet alot of descriptions of the guys on here I am a self-avowed feminist (met my last girlfriend at a feminist meeting of all places) and I’m a dominant very self assertive alpha male. The only difference I have is that I have a lower libido. I am quite content with 2-3 times a week and I usually end up with women that have a higher libido than mine. Usually by communication we can come to an agreement. However, the fact that I don’t want sex all the time sometimes calls my manhood into question as if there is something wrong with me or I’m a defective model. This despite the fact I like running the show in the bedroom and I’m very dominant in every area of my life from business to friends my lovers. I was raised by my mother and grandma who raised me to be a self-assertive alpha male which presents an conundrum for me. I believe women are wonderful verdant creatures who should be respected and treated equally and anyone that demeans or disrespects anyone, especially women should be put in their place by someone who gets it.
Men are feared which is why male nannies (I was one) and other men in these professions dealing with innocents are called out to be strange and worse thanks to pedafiles and the like. Men have always been feared due to superior strength and their overwhelming sexuality that for many men has no bounds. A lot of this fear is urban myth or only true in a very small amount of cases. Problem number two is that men have been perceived and have been socialized to think they need as many women as possible and to sleep with as many women as they humanly can in as quick succession as possible. Some men do feel they need to do this others of us do not feel this need and of course gay men can be eliminated completely. This standard is stupid and outdated and I hope is eliminated in a few years as men stand up for their own sexuality. I think many men are afraid of standing up for their sexuality for fear of being shut down by feminists but we have to realize that that wave of feminism is over and now is the time for everyone, male, female and variations thereof to stand-up and be sexually liberated to seek out their own safe, mature, adult, sexual relationships.
Men should seek out sexually, emotionally, and spiritually fulfilling relationships and I think that many more men are doing just that and looking to be fulfilled wholly and not just physically (another step in the evolutionary process I think) and that is progress in our new and modern age. Will there always be the one night stand and prostitution? Most likely, but times are changing on those fronts as well. Sexually dominant women and women seeking out sex for themselves is a crucial part of that evolutionary process. I have had girlfriends lay me out and take advantage of me (alot of fun I highly recommend) and that is the kind of new equality, compromise, and fulfillment we should expect of mature adult sexual relationships.
I lecture frequently on male issues and I’m desperately trying to carve my place in men’s studies as an outgrowth of feminist studies. I lecture frequently on the decline of masculinity. Men have been denegrated, feminizied, demonized, and generally crushed in the last 40 years in some attempt to make up for the past 2000 of the patriarchy. Unfortunately, the baby has been thrown out with the bath water. We’ve thrown out the abusers and the wife beaters but sadly we are lacking in strong men and male sexuality has been relegated to the dustbin of history. I would agree there is very little sex positive for men (unless you’re gay of course which leaves straight men out in the cold). The reason there are female prostitutes more than male prostitutes is that our society does not objectify men in the same way we do women and also we don’t find men particularly visually attractive men are “Gross, disgusting, ugly, hairy, unkept, and dirty” whereas women are opposite and considered better. At the same time while straight men don’t have bath-houses they do have the ability to legally buy prostitutes in certain parts of the world and male promiscuity while frowned upon by some is considered a stepping stone in life which can be a negative.
How does all this matter to writing? This kind of environment does not exactly foster a great deal of erotic creativity from men. However, I will continue to write myself and I hope that more men are liberated from their silence. My advice to my fellow men in this thread is to not look at less opportunity and less chance to have sex but much rather to look upon more chances and greater fulfillment in this area. I do not feel that straight men need a movement to free them for they are already free they just need to seek out mature adult sexual relationships, our society finds that acceptable and I think that with good communication with your partner we can find a great balance.
on Friday, 12 March 2010 at 2:38 am Eclectic wrote:
I have to strongly agree with YB’s point, that men talking about their sexual urges is strongly discouraged in mixed company due to threat/creepiness. I have been blessed with lovers who were very clearly not only unafraid of my desire, but powerfully attracted to it, and that’s done a lot to blunt that early conditioning.
But I still remember the feeling of shame/embarrassment of revealing my arousal to someone else that first time.
The problem is, by far the most common archetype of the man who doesn’t keep his sexual urges under control is the the jock who gets drunk and rapes a girl at the frat party.
The perception is a mixture of both stereotype and reality (which is itself divided into nature and nurture), but generally, if a butch character (which includes most straight men) is propositioned for sex, he is seen as having a choice. The main problem associated with saying no is doing it politely enough. when a femme character (e.g. most straight women) is propositioned for sex, there’s a certain element of fear: will they take no for an answer?
That creates a different sort of barrier
on Friday, 12 March 2010 at 8:49 am drooling horndogs | Ephemeral Blog wrote:
[…] The Blowfish Blog | Sex Writers, Drooling Horndogs, and the Suspectability of Male Sexuality I want to read more about how men feel about this “animal urge horndog” label they’ve gotten stuck with: to what extent they think it’s true, to what extent they think it isn’t, how the reality and the unreality of it weave together in their experience of their sexuality. […]
on Friday, 12 March 2010 at 3:03 pm Apples and Porsches » Blog Archive » Wholestyle on the Web wrote:
[…] The Blowfish Blog: Sex Writers, Drooling Horndogs, and the Suspectability of Male Sexuality The gender conundrum surrounding the world of sex writers […]
on Friday, 12 March 2010 at 5:58 pm Russo wrote:
Cameron
are any of your lectures on the decline of masculinity and such, available for reading anywhere?
I would be very interested.
thanks!
on Monday, 15 March 2010 at 10:12 am Eli wrote:
There’s an interesting article that suggests the difference may be in part because “men, unlike women, are inculcated in a system that equates maleness with stoicism.”
on Monday, 15 March 2010 at 1:28 pm Chris Hall wrote:
Thank you so much for writing this, Greta. It’s something that I’ve struggled to deal with for years. One of the major consequences of what you describe above is that the men who should really be speaking up, the ones who actually care most about questioning the sexual status quo, are the ones most likely to become silent. Sometimes they don’t become completely silent; sometimes in talking about their sexual desire, progressive men merely hesitate to speak, or are circumspect, or load their speech down with qualifications. Unfortunately, men who are more comfortable with the way things are have no such inhibition about speaking out; men like Tucker Max whose sexualities revolve around misogyny and bluster speak loudly and frequently, and take up a much bigger space in the dialogue than they should. The result is that if you’re a progressive man and you want to be trusted, you downplay the carnal and libidinous in favor of the intellectual and the emotional. Part of this, too, lies in objectification as a central part of modern gender analysis. The over-use of objectification in analyzing desire creates a zero-sum dualism: saying that a woman has great tits is implicitly disparaging of her other characteristics, such as being a great writer. That dynamic, I feel, really enshrines the concept of male sexuality as rapacious and suspect, preventing us from taking a good hard look at it. Of course, the difficulty arises in the fact that many men do use “great tits” as a way to disparage women’s other aspects. What is revolutionary and progressive is to learn a way around that loathing of sexuality. (Because it does represent a contempt for both male and female sexuality at once.)
One of the real problems is that many people think that there isn’t any need to talk about male sexuality, especially male heterosexuality. Other genders and sexualities have been pushed out of the public discourse so completely that everything that needs to be said about male heterosexuality should have been said already. The dispiriting thing is that this attitude is common not only in fratboys and readers of lad mags, but also among gender progressives. One of the reasons that many men don’t write seriously about sex is that among traditionalists it’s considered unmanly and whiny, and among progressives it’s considered an exertion of privilege that silences others who have already been silenced for too, too long.
And yet, if we remain silent, don’t articulate humane and honest accounts of our sexualities, we validate the ones who would silence queers and women.
As a result of this dilemma, I really don’t have the words to describe my sexuality, and I have tried to find them. Even “heterosexual” doesn’t fit all that well; although it’s mostly accurate, there’s still that 5-10% of my libido that’s not heterosexual. I deeply despise the term “straight,” because it seems to imply not merely heterosexual, but a certain kind of heterosexuality that rejects exploration of gender and your desires. Straight to me comes with pre-set boundaries, rather than inviting you to create your own. My attraction to butch dykes for example, may be heterosexual, but it’s not “straight.”
Thanks again, Greta. I’ll be thinking about this for a while.
on Monday, 15 March 2010 at 6:07 pm Steve wrote:
As much as you may admonish me consider the quote from Polexia Aphrodisia in the movie - Almost Famous. Spoken by a sexually confident girl to a group of sexually confident girls about an inexperienced young boy - it could never never never be said by a number of horny young men about a girl: “Let’s deflower the kid.”
on Tuesday, 16 March 2010 at 4:21 am John Stark wrote:
Thanks for this essay. It was forwarded to me by a reader who thought of me when she read it. It’s well written, thoughtful, and given me a lot to think about this morning. Ive got a lot to say on this, and I think most of it is charging up to be a whole new essay (I’ll put a link here, of course, and all that).
I’m a writer and a highly sexual male. It took a few years of writing and getting comfortable with it before I allowed myself to be, as I put it, an unrepentant heterosexual male. Once I did, my blog hits went up, especially on my erotica and sex posts. Most of the pressure I felt to be an apologetic male was my own, my own imaginings of what women wanted from me, of how a sex-positive straight guy fit into this massive body of work and thought that is constructing this movement.
I don’t really get throwing around the words ‘pariah’ or ‘victim’ to describe being a sexual male, because, sociologically speaking, I’m writing from a place of profound privilege. The sexuality reflected in most movies and most television shows is (even in an almost cartoonish way) reflective of my sexuality, is putting men on a pedestal. Perhaps so few men write in the sex positive world because the sex positive movement started as a movement counter to the mainstream messages on sex so dominated by straight male voices.
Like I said, I’ve got a lot to say about this, but I want to get my thoughts straight. Point being, I write about sex a lot, I’m pretty upfront about being a drooling horndog, and I’ve really got nothing but positive reactions from the sex positive community at large.
oh and my writing can be found at wesleeptogether.blogspot.com
on Wednesday, 17 March 2010 at 12:03 pm Why Aren’t There More Men in Sex Ed? | Charlie Glickman wrote:
[…] The fabulous Greta Christina wrote an article the other day, in which she speculated on the reasons why there aren’t more men writing about sex. It’s a great piece and I highly recommend it. Actually, I recommend pretty much anything Greta writes. […]
on Wednesday, 24 March 2010 at 7:45 am j wrote:
Steve +1
I know exactly how you feel and what you are saying. That said, communicating openly with my wife about this issue has helped a lot. I can only hope that it will continue to help.
It seems from day 1 men are taught that sex is an acceptable recreational activity and women are taught that it is not. So in marriage men want recreation and women tend to deny it.
on Sunday, 28 March 2010 at 3:27 am ToppHogg wrote:
For most of us men, life is an on-going series of frustrations. Because, as someone mentioned above, men are seen as dangerous, we get The Talk at the first sign of any sexual interest. Then we get a lot of close monitoring to see that we comply. This wipes out any learning time to create a healthy approach to inter-gender interaction, converting those desires into a hit-and-run-(before-Mom-finds-out) method of interaction. We get ours and run before the inevitable retribution comes.
Our heroes are the guys who have an active and varied sex life, wishing we were like those who are generally scoring with the babes we all lust after (Hugh Hefner made himself very wealthy tapping into this). When the rest of us attempt to emulate them, we get shot down until we have had enough pain and just avoid the entire scene. I once was talking with an attractive young woman, without any intention of trying to score, when one of the “gods” walked in. She dropped me in mid-sentence and rushed over to present herself. I left. I wasn’t going to get back into that losing game again.
Those of us who don’t make women aroused with our very presence end up settling for the desperate women who want that ring status so badly they’d marry us to get it. Once that ring goes on, so does the chastity belt. We men end up like the first commenter laments: “Most men lead lives of quiet sexual desperation and go to the grave with the climax still in them” (apologies to Henry David).
on Saturday, 1 May 2010 at 11:41 am Seriously? - Butterflies and Wheels wrote:
[…] Look at something Greta Christina said in her criticism of the critics of boobquake: I’ve written before about how we need to find a way for thoughtful, feminist men (specifically straight men) to express their sexual desires without automatically being treated as sexist, entitled louts and yahoos. This is the flip side of that issue. We need to find a way for thoughtful, feminist women to express our sexual desirability without automatically being treated as dumb, exploited bimbos who don’t understand what men really think of us. […]
on Tuesday, 4 May 2010 at 4:58 pm Gereg Jones Muller wrote:
Really, really well put. I see a certain amount of protest & dispute here, but the fact is, I think you’ve hit on something important and presented it intelligently.
My own situation is a little atypical, from what I can tell - I’ve rarely been turned down by a woman, but then I’ve rarely propositioned a woman I hadn’t known for at least a few years. Emotional/spiritual connexion really is more important to me than immediate erotic charge. I actually believe that deep down, that’s true for all men and women: there’s a whole set of cultural overlays that I blame for all appearances to the contrary, on all sides of the gender-preference line.
I’ve been engaged lately in some online disputes about just how different men and women really are, and I cited a link to your article as a resource for a particular more-than-old-school disputant (who claims, for example, that Sarah Palin is one of the few exceptional women of our time).
Thanks for saving me a great deal of trouble by saying some of this first, and from the female perspective.
on Friday, 7 May 2010 at 8:02 am Valhar2000 wrote:
Well, Gereg, Sarah Palin does strike me as being exceptional; not in a good way.
on Sunday, 9 May 2010 at 9:58 am Anonymous coward wrote:
I’m male. I’m straight. Sexual attraction comes very easily to me. I’d be interested in having sex with at least 90% of my female friends. Despite all the claims of “sex positivity” and “openness and honesty is best”, I can tell that if I were open about my sexual desires, I would be a complete pariah, so I hide them.
I’m not sure whether it’s intended to be that way, but it’s very easy for me to read this post as “I want to hear about the many and varied attitudes and thoughts about sex that men have—except for the drooling horndogs, of course; they’re tiresome and should STFU”. You (rightly!) complain about “slut-shaming”. There’s nothing wrong with a women having sex with lots of people, and there is something wrong with making a woman feel bad or guilty about it. But if you’re not indulging in “horndog-shaming” with your post, you’re at least not trying as hard as you could to speak out against horndog-shaming. And horndog-shaming is way worse than slut-shaming, because it is desire-shaming, rather than just action-shaming.
If you really want men to write about sex more, and you don’t just mean “men whose sexuality is different from the norm—normal men are boring”, you should be clearer that you think the societeal label “horndog” for my sexual desires is inappropriate.
If you’re intention was to say that it’s OK to be a horndog, and you want to hear thoughts on sexuality from horndogs, you need to say that it’s OK to be a horndog, and you’re only using that negative terminology to denounce its use. Just as I would never say “I’d like to read more sex writing from sluts” without writing a lot more that works hard to be very clear that I am not slut-shaming.