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	<title>Comments on: Fuck Anything That Flies: Bisexuality, Fruit Flies, and the Causes of Sexual Orientation</title>
	<link>http://blog.blowfish.com/culture/fuck-anything-that-flies-bisexuality-fruit-flies-and-the-causes-of-sexual-orientation/553</link>
	<description>Sponsored by Blowfish: Good Products for Great Sex.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 00:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://blog.blowfish.com/culture/fuck-anything-that-flies-bisexuality-fruit-flies-and-the-causes-of-sexual-orientation/553#comment-9396</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 17:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.blowfish.com/culture/fuck-anything-that-flies-bisexuality-fruit-flies-and-the-causes-of-sexual-orientation/553#comment-9396</guid>
					<description>While I agree that we should, absolutely, seek the truth in such matters, I think it should be irrelevant in matters of policy.  All people should be free to seek and form consensual relationships with whomever they please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree that we should, absolutely, seek the truth in such matters, I think it should be irrelevant in matters of policy.  All people should be free to seek and form consensual relationships with whomever they please.
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		<title>by: konrad_arflane</title>
		<link>http://blog.blowfish.com/culture/fuck-anything-that-flies-bisexuality-fruit-flies-and-the-causes-of-sexual-orientation/553#comment-9384</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 13:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.blowfish.com/culture/fuck-anything-that-flies-bisexuality-fruit-flies-and-the-causes-of-sexual-orientation/553#comment-9384</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;"If it is genetic then what, people have no choice about what they “are”?"&lt;/i&gt;

Without saying it is or isn't genetic, why do you feel people *ought* to have a choice? I don't really see the problem. I've never felt that I had a choice myself - I happen to be heterosexual, just as I happen to be caucasian/male/any other feature of my person that I didn't get asked about. Maybe I'd feel differently about it if I'd ever had to really soul-search about my sexuality like a lot of gay/bi people seem to, but I haven't, and I don't.

&lt;i&gt;"How far does this go into other behaviors?"&lt;/i&gt;

Well, that's the million-dollar question, isn't it? I definitely think that our behaviors are more genetically influenced than most of us would like to think - but that's mainly because nearly everyone wants to believe in (their own) free will, so anything that interferes with that is necessarily going to be uncomfortable. But Greta Christina's excellent post applies to this as well - whatever turns out to be the case, we're better off knowing than not knowing, and if we want to know, we need to approach the subject with an open mind (unless genetically incapable of doing so...).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;If it is genetic then what, people have no choice about what they “are”?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Without saying it is or isn&#8217;t genetic, why do you feel people *ought* to have a choice? I don&#8217;t really see the problem. I&#8217;ve never felt that I had a choice myself - I happen to be heterosexual, just as I happen to be caucasian/male/any other feature of my person that I didn&#8217;t get asked about. Maybe I&#8217;d feel differently about it if I&#8217;d ever had to really soul-search about my sexuality like a lot of gay/bi people seem to, but I haven&#8217;t, and I don&#8217;t.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;How far does this go into other behaviors?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Well, that&#8217;s the million-dollar question, isn&#8217;t it? I definitely think that our behaviors are more genetically influenced than most of us would like to think - but that&#8217;s mainly because nearly everyone wants to believe in (their own) free will, so anything that interferes with that is necessarily going to be uncomfortable. But Greta Christina&#8217;s excellent post applies to this as well - whatever turns out to be the case, we&#8217;re better off knowing than not knowing, and if we want to know, we need to approach the subject with an open mind (unless genetically incapable of doing so&#8230;).
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		<title>by: Greta Christina</title>
		<link>http://blog.blowfish.com/culture/fuck-anything-that-flies-bisexuality-fruit-flies-and-the-causes-of-sexual-orientation/553#comment-9366</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 11:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.blowfish.com/culture/fuck-anything-that-flies-bisexuality-fruit-flies-and-the-causes-of-sexual-orientation/553#comment-9366</guid>
					<description>"My life experiences tell me that sexual behavior is pleasurable, and that people like doing it — everything else about sexual behavior is taught, imprinted, conditioned"

The problem with this argument is the number of people who say that they knew, from a very early age, what their sexual orientation was. (That's not the only problem -- there's other evidence that human sexual orientation is at least partly inborn, in at least some people -- but it's one of the big ones.) Some of us have had our place on the Kinsey scale fluctuate over our lives... but some people really, really haven't.

It could well be that, without social pressure, more of us would behave more bisexually. I actually think this is very likely. And certainly many aspects of our sexual identity, if not our desires and behavior, are socially constructed. But I no longer think, as I used to, that "everyone is born basically bisexual." I just don't think the evidence supports it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My life experiences tell me that sexual behavior is pleasurable, and that people like doing it — everything else about sexual behavior is taught, imprinted, conditioned&#8221;</p>
<p>The problem with this argument is the number of people who say that they knew, from a very early age, what their sexual orientation was. (That&#8217;s not the only problem &#8212; there&#8217;s other evidence that human sexual orientation is at least partly inborn, in at least some people &#8212; but it&#8217;s one of the big ones.) Some of us have had our place on the Kinsey scale fluctuate over our lives&#8230; but some people really, really haven&#8217;t.</p>
<p>It could well be that, without social pressure, more of us would behave more bisexually. I actually think this is very likely. And certainly many aspects of our sexual identity, if not our desires and behavior, are socially constructed. But I no longer think, as I used to, that &#8220;everyone is born basically bisexual.&#8221; I just don&#8217;t think the evidence supports it.
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		<title>by: Edward</title>
		<link>http://blog.blowfish.com/culture/fuck-anything-that-flies-bisexuality-fruit-flies-and-the-causes-of-sexual-orientation/553#comment-9235</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.blowfish.com/culture/fuck-anything-that-flies-bisexuality-fruit-flies-and-the-causes-of-sexual-orientation/553#comment-9235</guid>
					<description>I know "heterosexual" men with children, a loving wifes of 20  years, who go to churches, vote republican, etc. -- who go down to the local sex toy / movie peep store and get their dicks sucked by other men in dark corners or through glory holes.  All levels of society, all ethnic groups, all religions. They are not self-identified as gay, nor does anyone call them gay.

I know men who are married and have children who nontheless are conjectured to be "gay" by their friends and family, primarily because of their seemingly instant and intimate connection with every male they meet, because all their "good" friends are males, and because they seek out the company and compansionship of males over females at all points -- that they are married and have children is almost a comma in their lives.  I know a guy like this who won't cheat on his wife, but believes that he himself is gay, but "marriage is forever".

I'd dislike seeing "proof" that "gay" "heterosexual" or "lesbian" are either a) genetic or b) totally learned.  If it is genetic then what, people have no choice about what they "are"?  How far does this go into other behaviors? 
If it is totally learned, then I'm annoyed because of all the people who were caused pain by their "choice".  And because the rabid right will descend like flies on gays who are teachers to say "look, they really *are* conditioning our youth. 

I have seemingly always believed that people are limiting themselves by being monosexual (that my friends, is gay, les, or hetero).  My life experiences tell me that sexual behavior is pleasurable, and that people like doing it -- everything else about sexual behavior is taught, imprinted, conditioned -- by our families and society and by what we read and by the priests, by what gets you wet the fastest and off the hardest. 

I love talking at parties about how incest as a taboo in this society is constructed out of thin air.  "If you don't mind culling any birth defects (yes, there were societies who practiced infantilism), and if you have birth control or abortions, and if it is with someone who can give informed consent, then who cares?" generally has people frothing at the mouth in about 30 seconds.  Gee, I can feel readers here tensing up even at the theoretical devil's advocate kidding around (or is it?).

But to step away from sexual behavior for a moment, lifestyle choices are about so much more than just pure-D sexual behavior.  You can be hetero or gay and never have sex in your Life, in my opinion.  It is about who you give your heart to, about who you live with, and connect to, and share your time with.  If I am a man and my partner in life is a man, then gosh I'm gay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know &#8220;heterosexual&#8221; men with children, a loving wifes of 20  years, who go to churches, vote republican, etc. &#8212; who go down to the local sex toy / movie peep store and get their dicks sucked by other men in dark corners or through glory holes.  All levels of society, all ethnic groups, all religions. They are not self-identified as gay, nor does anyone call them gay.</p>
<p>I know men who are married and have children who nontheless are conjectured to be &#8220;gay&#8221; by their friends and family, primarily because of their seemingly instant and intimate connection with every male they meet, because all their &#8220;good&#8221; friends are males, and because they seek out the company and compansionship of males over females at all points &#8212; that they are married and have children is almost a comma in their lives.  I know a guy like this who won&#8217;t cheat on his wife, but believes that he himself is gay, but &#8220;marriage is forever&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d dislike seeing &#8220;proof&#8221; that &#8220;gay&#8221; &#8220;heterosexual&#8221; or &#8220;lesbian&#8221; are either a) genetic or b) totally learned.  If it is genetic then what, people have no choice about what they &#8220;are&#8221;?  How far does this go into other behaviors?<br />
If it is totally learned, then I&#8217;m annoyed because of all the people who were caused pain by their &#8220;choice&#8221;.  And because the rabid right will descend like flies on gays who are teachers to say &#8220;look, they really *are* conditioning our youth. </p>
<p>I have seemingly always believed that people are limiting themselves by being monosexual (that my friends, is gay, les, or hetero).  My life experiences tell me that sexual behavior is pleasurable, and that people like doing it &#8212; everything else about sexual behavior is taught, imprinted, conditioned &#8212; by our families and society and by what we read and by the priests, by what gets you wet the fastest and off the hardest. </p>
<p>I love talking at parties about how incest as a taboo in this society is constructed out of thin air.  &#8220;If you don&#8217;t mind culling any birth defects (yes, there were societies who practiced infantilism), and if you have birth control or abortions, and if it is with someone who can give informed consent, then who cares?&#8221; generally has people frothing at the mouth in about 30 seconds.  Gee, I can feel readers here tensing up even at the theoretical devil&#8217;s advocate kidding around (or is it?).</p>
<p>But to step away from sexual behavior for a moment, lifestyle choices are about so much more than just pure-D sexual behavior.  You can be hetero or gay and never have sex in your Life, in my opinion.  It is about who you give your heart to, about who you live with, and connect to, and share your time with.  If I am a man and my partner in life is a man, then gosh I&#8217;m gay.
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		<title>by: Carl Baker</title>
		<link>http://blog.blowfish.com/culture/fuck-anything-that-flies-bisexuality-fruit-flies-and-the-causes-of-sexual-orientation/553#comment-9189</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 03:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.blowfish.com/culture/fuck-anything-that-flies-bisexuality-fruit-flies-and-the-causes-of-sexual-orientation/553#comment-9189</guid>
					<description>..................   wow   .........................


Such an amazingly rational post!  I think I'm in love with Greta....

I just love seeing one of my favorite science blogs referenced on my favorite (ok, only) sex blogs.  And I am absolutely stunned and impressed with Greta's determination to confront reality and live in the real world.

Absolutely wonderful!

I'd gush some more, but I fear Greta's articulateness has left me speechless (so to speak!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;   wow   &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>Such an amazingly rational post!  I think I&#8217;m in love with Greta&#8230;.</p>
<p>I just love seeing one of my favorite science blogs referenced on my favorite (ok, only) sex blogs.  And I am absolutely stunned and impressed with Greta&#8217;s determination to confront reality and live in the real world.</p>
<p>Absolutely wonderful!</p>
<p>I&#8217;d gush some more, but I fear Greta&#8217;s articulateness has left me speechless (so to speak!).
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		<title>by: steppen wolf</title>
		<link>http://blog.blowfish.com/culture/fuck-anything-that-flies-bisexuality-fruit-flies-and-the-causes-of-sexual-orientation/553#comment-9129</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 18:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.blowfish.com/culture/fuck-anything-that-flies-bisexuality-fruit-flies-and-the-causes-of-sexual-orientation/553#comment-9129</guid>
					<description>I am glad you posted this. It is true, this does not prove anything...apart from the very essential fact that sexual behavior can actually be affected in a determinant way by genetic mutations. Which is, in itself, quite a revealing concept. 

There was another such study - actually, couple of studies - who were published some time ago. These were about a gene called fruitless. Anyway, here are some mixed sources, for those who are interested:

&lt;a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15120494.200-born-to-be-gay.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Born to be gay? - New Scientist&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.peak.sfu.ca/the-peak/2005-3/issue11/lastword.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;There's a gay fly in my soup! - The Peak&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/06/fornicating-fem.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;fornicating female fruitless flies  - Panda's Thumb&lt;/a&gt;

Sure the naming was nasty..."fruitless"...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am glad you posted this. It is true, this does not prove anything&#8230;apart from the very essential fact that sexual behavior can actually be affected in a determinant way by genetic mutations. Which is, in itself, quite a revealing concept. </p>
<p>There was another such study - actually, couple of studies - who were published some time ago. These were about a gene called fruitless. Anyway, here are some mixed sources, for those who are interested:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15120494.200-born-to-be-gay.html" rel="nofollow">Born to be gay? - New Scientist</a><br />
<a href="http://www.peak.sfu.ca/the-peak/2005-3/issue11/lastword.html" rel="nofollow">There&#8217;s a gay fly in my soup! - The Peak</a><br />
<a href="http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/06/fornicating-fem.html" rel="nofollow">fornicating female fruitless flies  - Panda&#8217;s Thumb</a></p>
<p>Sure the naming was nasty&#8230;&#8221;fruitless&#8221;&#8230;
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